Tuesday, July 28, 2009

What Ending For Ronald Weinland?

I think Todd has it right. I think he knows the deception he is peddling, but he is stuck with it and has no easy way out, plus it provides his livelyhood and he is the boss - answerable to a seemingly absent God. The lifestyle, travel and being your own boss (more than less) and being the authority closes the deal - as they have for so many preachers. It is enjoyable to have people look up to you, to defer to your wisdom.

Despite his outlandish claims Ron appears rational. He must certainly come face to face (at least weekly), if not more, with the lack of evidence substantiating his claim to prophet and witness hood. He boldly and desperately reaffirms his role - so he feels the pressure - even though now he seems to have eased that pressure until the LGD, so he just gives regular sermons.

It takes a determined and calculated effort to make and reaffirm his claims to everyone, including himself. I mean when he eats dinner he looks across the table and faces a woman he knows is not a prophetess or the second witness. What can that be like? She is his silent partner in religious crime, I contend.

How can they do this?

I simply find it staggering and it is why I stay tuned in.

Can anyone see this ending well?

I have difficulty conceiving of Ron getting out of this with any credibility. I suppose it could happen. But PKG members out there are counting down. They are invested spiritually, emotionally and financially. This is heading for one big wreck.

Reflecting on my own experience, this grips a person hard and for a long time. I don't ever expect to see myself believing 'I have the truth.' Alarm bells go off in my mind the first step down that road.

That said, the bible especially Proverbs and Eccliasiastes contain useful guidance. I think the most valuable trait a person can cultivate is humility. (not to echo Ron by any means, in fact, a lot of the railing he does against pride seems calculated to establish his authority and to prevent any challenge or questioning.)

You won't see me chiming in on doctrinal matters. I haven't the desire to.

Agree or disagree, I feel connected to everyone here. I wish I had more answers than unanswerable questions, but I don't. I think that is the 'cold' reality in which we all actually live - so best to embrace it.

Do I like it? No, not especially. It is more comfortable thinking you do have the answers - 'the truth'.

I've drank the heady brew of certainty and felt its comforting, intoxicating and powerful embrace. But we pay a price for the beliefs we allow ourselves to hold, often painful ones.

I think it is important to recognize the limits of one's beliefs - that our beliefs can and do have limits and that a good many of them may not be correct and can't be fully trusted. And that only in the testing of our beliefs can we protect ourselves, our relationships and futures from certain harms. Above all, the others we surround ourselves with, can provide a healthy check on and connection to reality. We cut others off at our own peril.

Reality's comfort may be cold at first , but it brings peace when we recognize and accept it.

How will Ron's saga end? I don't know, but I see more bad endings than good. All I know, is that if he does what he does knowingly then he deserves everything he gets, but it should be tempered with mercy. I think he's written a story for himself out of delusion and desperation that he can't get out of and unfortunately has sucked a lot of vulnerable people in after him.

I know what I don't know. I know what I cannot know. I accept that.

I believe in God and when there is a clear choice, I'm confident I'll make the right choice.

Tick Tock

Dill Weed

19 comments:

todd said...

"I know what I don't know. I know what I cannot know. I accept that."

That is truly an important statement Dill! I think a lot of people, (probably the vast majority of them) get hung up on the future, what is going to happen, that they miss so many opportunities that God has for them right here and now.

I know i've been guilty of this...many times...reading horoscopes or going to a psychic...etc....it's big business! But it can trap you.

Accept the present...it is a gift, we are not guarenteed tomorrow. Just know that God is in control. Can that be enough?
For me, it has to be.

Dill Weed said...

I agree. I've missed out on many opportunities also. Enough of that!
God is going to have to sort out the Revelation stuff and I'll just watch.

Dill Weed

todd said...

we should stay alert....but also, continue to live life.

xHWA said...

God's truth is always pulling at us, so they have to counter that love and grace with the natural enemies, fear and subjection. What better way than abusing the "scary" parts of the Bible?

I think you're right on, Dill. Have unshakable faith in God that no matter how things turn out, His grace is sufficient, just do your level best, and we'll end up in His arms in the end.
In the mean time, enjoy the ride!

Kirrily XPKG said...

Thank you Dill for that post - it has spoken volumes to me.

Reality is cold at first, I am still shivering.

When you do think you have 'the truth' - it does shelter you in so many ways. You can remain oblivious to so many things. It is 'easier' (or so you think).

Ah, so much to think about.

angel said...

The accounts of false prophets recorded in the Bible never ended well, in fact I don't recall one instance where any of them repented and was reinstated as a true prophet, so I have no reason to believe this will be any different.

Something to keep in mind about knowing "the truth"; it's not as hard as you might think. First of all, Jesus is the Truth, so if you know Him, you're doing good. The Bible is the Truth, so if you make yourself familiar with it, and hold to it, again, you're doing good.

Doctrinal issues? The scariest thing about them is what people say to try to make you afraid; discussions are fine but don't let yourself be caught up in arguments because they rarely result in anyone changing their minds.

Another important thing to remember when considering whether or not a person like RW is sincerely deceived or merely deceiving the sincere is that when the Bible warns us to reject a false prophet it doesn't say, unless he seems sincere.

dill weed said...

True wisdom, Angel, True wisdom.


Dill Weed

xHWA said...

This is a good discussion!

I once wrote a blog post about doom and gloom prophecies, titled "Prophecy for Fear and Control", if anyone cares to read it.

Not trying to toot any horn, just would love to chime in here but really would only be repeating myself.

Dill Weed said...

xHWA,

Good post. This is the very same thing JWs do through their Watchtower and Awake magazines.

Haccckkkk Ptttooooyyy!!!

Sorry, bad memories! : D

Your post is now linked. Well done and much appreciated.

Dill Weed

Kirrily XPKG said...

Angel, Dill, Todd and XHWA:

I ask this question: HOW do you read the Bible?

I mean, what should I start with?

Is there ANY kind of study aid, or course I could take do you think? Or should I just READ it?

I have that concordance James Malm told me to buy too.

Ideally, it would be great if there was some sort of trustworthy Bible Study course or something I could do - but I am guessing that ALL of them would be pressing their own ideas??

Any suggestions?

Sorry Dill to use your commenting section for this here, but I actually nearly feel ready to get into this again (gently!!).

Dill Weed said...

I have been considering that myself. I cringe when I feel someone trying to draw me into a certain theololgy or doctrine.

I have not been considering a new religon. I don't know that I could get into that.

I have been considering studying Proverbs and Ecclesiates as they both contain wisdom for living.
Reading Proverbs is centering. I haven't gotten around to it, yet. I am confident there are probably some good guides avaliable on line.

I'm probably going to do Proverbs, then Ecclesiates. I don't know after that.

I'll put links on my site when I find something good. Let me know if you find something, too.

I'm going to be expanding into new topics here, too.

Dill Weed

todd said...

dill,
proverbs is probably my favorite book in the bible....a lot of good stuff in there!

kirrily,
i can only tell you what i've done. first of all, my reading comprehension is terrible...get distracted easily...so, when i decided to read the bible cover to cover, i prayed to God that since i knew this about myself, that He helped put the words i read into my heart. i did not set a time frame for when to get done...i just tried to make sure i read some every day.
I read cover to cover twice this way. Then (inbetween these two times) I read the new testament a few times....Red letter edition was important so that i knew when it was actually Jesus speaking...His words, who he spoke to and what he was saying is very important.
over the years i've been involved with a few bible studies with a group of freinds. the important thing with this was, we were able to communicate what we felt or how we interpreted what we read without feeling like we were going to get in trouble for what we thought. we learned new insights as well as freely shared our own insights. it was not who was right or wrong...but just honestly seeking a relationship with our Lord and Savior and the Creator of all.
Very positive experience...not negative and doom and gloom.

xHWA said...

Hi Kirrily!

Todd said the most important part already "i prayed to God".
That is KEY.

How do I do Bible study? I personally use Bible Gateway. I LOVE that website for bible study. It's just so easy. I always go there first.

I also use eSword. It's Bible software that must be downloaded and installed. Notice that in the downloads section there are downloads for Bibles, Commentaries, Dictionaries, Extras, etc. You can get everything you need there. Too much! :-)
(The author accepts donations, so even though it's free a little gratuity is always appreciated.)

Now, I always read from the New King James. It's my "go to" version. You should pick one to be your "go to" version.
I suggest you cross-reference that version with the the King James and also the New International Version. Reading confusing verses in these two other versions helps you to get a better grip on what is being said. Then, for those times when you really just want something to be explained in plain dawgoned English for a change, read it in the the Message version. The Message version is NOT good for formal study, but it's GREAT for easy comprehension. After years of being taught to fear it, I really have learned to love it.

I also use eSword to consult the Commentaries. Matthew Henry, Barnes, Clark... all good. That is another person's ideas, of course. Take them with a grain of salt. But "in the multitude of counselors there is wisdom."

I like eSword for these two other downloads: Strong's Concordance and the King James Concordance. Strong's will give you an idea on what the word means, KJC will tell you all of the places that word is found (no matter what that word is translated as). Excellent tools!!

That ought to do you for a basic overview of how I do things.

OH! I can't forget- read the (not electric) Bible just to read it and think about it and spend time with God. That's my favorite way to be close to God. And talk to people you trust online to bounce ideas off of them.

I will pray for (with) you for your Bible study. GOD BLESS!!!!!

Kirrily XPKG said...

Thanks heaps guys!! Will have a look..... :-)

angel said...

Kirrily,

These are great suggestions, I use Bible Gateway too, and my Bible of choice is the New King James Version, the MacArthur Study Bible in particular because I like the introduction notes for each book.

Where to begin? Since I’m not sure what you know/don’t know I’ll just throw some things out there for you to consider.

First of all, it’s important you not be intimidated by the Bible; the more you familiarize yourself with it the more comfortable you will be. I had so many questions when I started; where did the Bible come from? What does OT and NT mean? Who wrote it and when? How do we know we can trust it? A couple of books that got me started were Norman Geisler’s “A Popular Survey of the OT” and Halley’s Bible Handbook. Having a solid foundation is important; without it you’re building a house of cards.

Second, don’t be afraid of the parts you don’t understand. God designed His word to be a life-long study for babes in Christ and the most brilliant Bible scholars. God knows your heart and your level of understanding; He’s given you a heart to discern, a mind to reason and a will to choose, and the Holy Spirit as your tutor.

Third, one of the gifts God gives is teaching, not just to one man but to many so we need not fear it, we just need to be discerning. Listen to a variety of teachers, read more than one man’s commentaries, etc., so that you can get, like xHWA says, wisdom from a multitude of counselors. I feel blessed that there are people out there who devote many hours to research and study and are willing to share what they’ve learned; keeping in mind that you don’t have to accept their findings as “the truth”, use discernment.

Fourth, if you read the Bible for yourself you won’t have to depend on others to tell you what it says (and doesn’t say).

One last thought; don’t depend on your feelings to measure truth. Feelings change, and they can be deceiving; for instance you can feel fine and find out you have cancer, you can feel like you have a great marriage and find out your spouse is cheating; I could go on but you get my drift. The tool God gave you is three-pronged; heart, mind and will.

xHWA said...

I just found out that e-Sword has an online version. Scaled down, but neat anyhow.

jack635 said...

In my humble opinion, the best Bible Study Course is......THE BIBLE. Open the book to the new testament, and start reading. You don't have to bounce around from book to book like most preachers would have you do. Just read it sentence after sentence, the way it was written.

After all, who is our present salvation? Moses or Jesus?

Start with the new testament, which is the testimony of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Gazbom said...

Dill I would like to apologise for my rudeness last week, why don't you join the forum and comment as much as you like, you would be very welcome!
Once again, sorry for being rude

You can find a link to the forum on my blog

Greetings Gazbom

Anonymous said...

Kirrily,

You asked about a bible study place to go...this is the one I have used. http://keyway.ca/htm2002/progrep/htm It belongs to a man by the name of Wayne Blank...he believes in the Sabbath and keeping the holy days but does not say follow me or you are out. The bible study breaks it down by the day and in the course of a year, you will have read the whole bible. It is under Bible reading and notes. I was in PKG for a short while and left after a few months. I hope you find this helpful.