Where are we in time?
But before we do: Join Dill Weed, Jr. in the followers section. For your safety, leave the dry cat food at home! Jr. has a pleasant disposition and is good company as long as there isn’t any dry cat food around. : D
Note: Religons in their attempt to see themselves as God's church have to apply things they find in scripture to themselves. That is where 'spiritualization' is particularly useful - in the sense it can never be proven or disproven, therefore you either believe and have faith and are part of the 'truth' or not. If you attempt to disprove or question then you are apostate and out you go. JWs do the same thing, mind bendingly so, as do others.
I'll make this a working document and update with relevant comments, corrections and input.
I read parts of PET and most of GFW. The post is an attempt to flesh out PKGs End Time beliefs and compare them with some others. It is admittedly a work in process. I'm exploring what is supposed to happen in the last 3 years.
Everyone chime in where you like.
The Seven Seals
Consider: Ron claims a 'spiritual' fulfillment for the first five seals. GFW pg. 62 "As mentioned, the first 5 Seals apply to God's church." (And apparently, only to the COG.) This is odd, most believe these will be physical, but whatever. Remember to see themselves as 'God's church' organizations have to see themselves in scripture first and that is when (dumb)founding, unprovable explanations and identifications start (sheesh). Ok, but I beat a dead horse below anyway.
One would suppose there would also be a physical fulfillment completing the 'pattern' or 'duality' of the prophecy. If that is the case, when did the physical fulfillment of Seals 1 - 4 and 6 occur since we are now awaiting the 2nd Trumpet? (Those seals have detail which refer specifically to physical things.)
1st Seal Prophesied End Time (PET) 1st Seal opened December 17, 1994 - White Horse with a rider bent on conquest (of COG)-widely believed to be the Anti-Christ and the slayer of the Two Witnesses 3 ½ years later. (Tkach defiled the Temple in December 17th 1994, the abomination that causes desolation. Not sure about the math on that one.) Tkach may be considered to be a 'type' of anti-christ in the 'spiritual' sense - a forerunner of 'physical' Anti-Christ?
Consider: The Anti-Christ is believed to come on the scene and make a 7 year peace accord with Israel, lead a slimmed down 10 nation EU, uproot 2 or 3 of those self-same nations, be killed by a blow to the head, resurrected, indwelt by Satan, break the 7 year peace accord at the 3 1/2 year mark initiating the Great Tribulation, work with the False Prophet to institute the Mark of the Beast, no buying or selling (including Super Bowl tickets -see post below), and if you don't take the mark then off with your head (presumably at the direction of the False Prophet and the speaking image he makes of the Beast under the power of a one world religon), head up a vast and dominant EU army that does not exist yet (!) (who can make war with the Beast?), conquer physical Israel, modern day Israel (Canada, America, Australia, New Zealand) and portions of the Middle East. Hear rumblings out of the east, gather his armies to fight a 200 million man Chinese army, then join with them and oppose Christ's return at Armageddon. ALL IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS. And since we are in the last 3 1/2 years - where is the Anti-Christ anyway?
From PKG-COG FAQ: Anti-Christ is not one person, nor does this refer to the Pope.
What about all the specific stuff said about him then? He is after all the Beast who makes war with the Two Witnesses and overcomes them. Rev. 11:7 and 13:8. One bad guy, the Anti-Christ, to their good guys is AWOL. The other, the False Prophet, the Pope, is in place. GFW Pg. 136 & 139.
2nd Seal - PET Pg. 154 (The opening of the 2nd Seal followed instantly behind the 1st.) "Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from (COG) the earth and to make (members spiritually slay each other) men slay each other. To him was given a large sword (new set of beliefs)." (All just within COG if you believe Ron.) Red Horse incites wars (Nothing matching the scale of WWII has happened, especially since 1994 when, Tkach, defiled the Temple. Has this seal been opened? It was no can of whoop ass, if it was. One would expect this to be biblical.)
Consider: Presumably, this would be part of the Anti-Christ's wars?
3rd Seal - PET Exact date not given - shortly after 2nd Seal. "A Black Horse - A quarta of wheat for a day’s wages, and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine! (Spiritual food becomes scarce and expensive?)” (Famine) Spiritual famine because people were without God's direction through prophet Ron. (See below.) Physical famine would intensify with Anti-Christ wars and plagues of the 4th Seal.
GFW Pg. 60 – The first three seals allowed for the self-destruction of two thirds of God’s own church. All I can think to say is, “Wow, I thought this applied to the world not just some small church. Well, that's what Ron says Jesus told him." GFW Pg 63 "When Christ began opening those Seals, He revealed their meaning to me, His servant.”
Stunning, simply, stunning.
But it gets better, it always does, when you identify yourself in scripture.
4th Seal - PET Exact date not given - shortly after 3rd Seal. "A pale horse! Its rider was named Death (Tkach), and Hades (Tkach's son?) was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of (COG) the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. (fought and became like beasts?)" (Applies only to the remaining 1/3 of COG, but notice Death and Hades were given power over a 1/4 of the earth. 1/4 of the remaining 1/3 of COG? I think I remember this from Ron's math as noted below.) Kills 1/4th of the earth - Still waiting. I’m sure this hasn’t happened in my lifetime. 1.5 Billion would have to die. When physical fulfillment?)
GFW Pg. 60- The fourth seal applies to the remaining one third of God’s church and would result in their experiencing the same kind of destruction as the former two thirds (Huh?), but they are being refined by God. (Oh, I get it.) What about killing one fourth of the earth? Oh yeah, that would be physical. Ooops.
5th Seal - PET Date not specified. Martyrs told to wait longer for justice. Happens in heaven. Presumably, only a spiritual fulfillment. (I need to pull Ron's finger =>)
6th Seal - GFW - Pg. 91 Opened 9/11/01. A great earthquake, sun turns black, 144,000 are sealed. (Feb 2 according to Ron. Where was the earthquake and when did the sun turn black? Did I miss this?) (Apparently, Ron does not believe in physical fulfillment of the 6 Seals. See below.)
GFW Pg.82 – Transition from the spiritual (applying to COG only) to the physical destruction everyone else. Concluding with the ‘sealing of the 144,000'. “The duration of the Sixth Seal is a time of transition between the COMPLETION of a spiritual phase and the beginning of a physical phase for the fulfillment of end time prophecies.” It’s all physical after the 6th Seal?
The Seven Thunders of the Sixth Seal.
Noteworthy: Ron has lifted the Seven Thunders and the Two Witnesses from the 6th Trumpet and placed them in the 6th Seal. However, if one started counting the 1260 days from the 6th Trumpet that would alter things a great deal. There appears to be overlap in the events of Revelation. How much I couldn't say. However much overlap there may be, the Great Tribulation is a fixed 3 1/2 yr period.
Also worthy of note:
GFW Page 91: "All Seven Thunders will increase in intensity as this great end-time storm approaches" Most Thunders have not intensified as 'prophesied' and some have not occurred at all. (See below)
GFW Page 115: "During the Sixth Seal, all Seven Thunders will be getting progressively louder." All Seven Thunders have not intensified during the Sixth Seal or even after. Some have not occurred at all. (See below)
H/T to Mike for pointing these out.
GFW Pg. 111 "All Seven Thunders are given as God's proof that I am his End Time prophet."
Where is the proof? I am an open minded fellow (even though I mock), but no one's blind believer. These proof of a prophet Thunders - can they only be seen if they are 'given'? I think not. Where is the proof?
Evidence that these Thunders are happening will be added when presented. One would think this would be readily apparent since we are in the last 3 years.
1st Thunder (Has not seemed to 'intensify' since 2006) 9/11 and the War on Terror (Two wars.)
(These occurred before book was published in 2006! Prophesy by hindsight is reporting.)
2nd Thunder (Some intensification since 2006, but most occurred before 2006 publication.) Increasing destruction generated by earthquakes.
3/25/02 Hindu Kush – 6.1 with 1000 dead
5/21/03 Northern Algeria – 6.8 with 2266 dead
12/26/03 Southeastern Iran – 6.6 with 31,000 dead
12/26/04 Sumatra – 9.1 with 227,898 dead
3/28/05 Northern Sumatra 8.6 with 1313 dead
10/8/05 Pakistan 7.6 with 85,000 dead
(All occurred before the book was published in 2006.)
5/26/06 Indonesia 6.3 with 5749 dead,
5/12/08 Eastern Sichuan 7.9 with 87,587 dead
Decade of 1990s Earthquake deaths 114,646
Decade of 2000 – 2009 so far, 463,955 a fourfold increase in deaths over the 1990s.
GFW- Pg. 95 “Over a period of only two years, there have been over 400,000 deaths from earthquakes.”
But note, this is looking backwards, retrospectively, especially to the 2004 Sumatran tsunami generating earthquake which alone killed over 225,000. Reporting what has already happened is not prophesying.
3rd Thunder (Has not seemed to 'intensify' since 2006) Growing destructiveness by weather.
(Hurricane Katrina occurred August 25, 2005 before book was published. Nothing equivalent or greater has occurred since.) Reporting what has already happened is not prophesying.
4th Thunder (Definite intensification since 2006.) Global Economic Upheaval
(Global financial crisis occurred fall 2008 and continues today possibly leading to a depression. Dollar continues to be global currency. Ron has predicted dollar to become worthless and for America to be invaded and conquered along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand and some European countries.)
5th Thunder (No evidence this is happening at all.)
Death in 3 phases
1st Phase – Marked increase in death within COG leadership. (Has not happened – can't be 'intensifying' since it has not started. COG leadership is still living, but are aged. Specifically named leaders are still alive. It would NOT be unusual for some of them to die- nor would it be 'marked'.)
An interesting aside, Ron said the pope (Ratzinger)is possessed. He broke his wrist recently and is 83 years old. The Pope might poop out before The End. Where would that leave Ron? (see below)
2nd Phase - Sudden escalation in death of notable people.
(Has not happened – and is not in the process of thundering.)
Consider this condition placed on the 2nd Phase: GFW Pg. 108 "These notable people will include political leaders and well known entertainment and sports figures. It will include other religious figures within the various religons of the world. THE PRIMARY EXCEPTION TO THIS WILL BE THE POPE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, WHO IS PROPHESIED TO DIE DIRECTLY AFTER THE RETURN OF JESUS CHRIST." (emphasis mine) The pope (Ratzinger) at the time of this prophecy was 81 years old and began his reign April, 2005. What if he dies before Christ returns? Is Ron exposed as a false prophet? Malachi and others have predicted the next pope to be the last pope - the False Prophet. Ron is repeating what Jesus told him - so he is committed.
(Dead People Server) http://dpsinfo.com/dps/sitemap.html
1996 – 79 Notable people died.
1997 – 142 Notable people died.
1998– 98 Notable people died.
1999– 113 Notable people died.
2000– 139 Notable people died.
2001– 107 Notable people died.
2002– 131 Notable people died.
2003– 123 Notable people died.
2004- 113 Notable people died.
2005– 183 Notable people died.
2006 – 119 Notable people died.
2007 – 132 Notable people died.
2008 – 126 Notable people died.
2009 – 63 as of July 18 up to and including Walter Cronkite, on track to equal last year.
Peak in 2005 then a decrease. No sudden increase since book was published.
3rd Phase - Sudden escalation of death in the world by plagues. (There is no evidence of a 'sudden escalation'. Not thundering.)
6th Thunder (No notable intensification since 2006.) Growing revelation of God’s Two End Time Witnesses as a result of the increasing thundering of the Seven Thunders validating Ron and Laura’s End Time ministry.
(Ron went to ideaCity, but otherwise nothing – not even a Jerry Springer appearance. Is this in the process of thundering?)
Have the Thunders revealed to the world God’s Two Witnesses?
Ask someone on the street at random.
7th Thunder (Has not happened. No increase in power.)Accelerated revelation of God to man “as His Two Witnesses grow in power.”
Ron said, “No powers, yet, maybe after the 5th Trumpet. He thinks. The Two Witnesses have not in any discernable way grown in power.
7th Seal - (March 18th 2008, updated to November 14, 2008 by Divine revelation to Ron.)
Silence for about ½ hour (Seems longer.)
1st Trumpet - hail and fire mixed with blood, burns 1/3 of the earth and trees, also all the green grass (April 17th according to Ron, updated to Dec. 14, 2008 by Divine revelation to Ron.)
According to Ron, this was ‘spiritual’ (Wasn’t the Sixth Seal about transitioning to physical fulfillment?) Because it was ‘spiritual’ it was unrecognizable by anyone including church members, God ‘gave it’ to Ron that it had happened and Ron ‘gave’ it to the church.)
2nd Trumpet - 1/3rd of the sea turned to blood (Hasn’t happened yet.
This was prophesied by Ron to be physical and therefore apparent to all mankind. It is supposed to be “nukular bombs going off in port cities.” This Trumpet has been delayed for a while within the final 3 ½ year time period due to a 2 day fast observed by the church at Ron’s and presumably God’s direction. 7 months in and it is still delaying. At ideaCity, Ron reaffirmed that the 2nd Trumpet was “nukular” bombs going off in port cities.
3rd Trumpet - 1/3rd of the water turned bitter (Still Waiting.)
4th Trumpet - 1/3rd of the sun, moon, and stars turned dark (Still waiting.)
5th Trumpet - (1st Woe) Locusts sting men like scorpions for five months.(Still waiting.)
6th Trumpet - (2nd Woe) (Still Waiting.)
4 Angels kill 1/3rd of mankind (Still waiting.)
7 Unwritten Thunders (until Weinland) (Started thundering 9/11 and some have rumbled off and on.)
2 Witnesses prophesy for 1260 days (1st Witness prefers to deliver run of the mill, sermons rather than prophesying.)
2 Witnesses lie dead for 3 ½ days (according to Weinland this is part of the 1260 days) (Still waiting.)
2 Witnesses resurrected, severe earthquake (Sept 29, 2011 per Weinland) (Still waiting.)
7th Trumpet (3rd Woe) (Still waiting.)
Pregnant woman gives birth, hides for 1260 days (according to Weinland all 7th Trumpet events happen on one day) (Still waiting.)
Beast with 7 heads & 10 horns rules for 42 months (could be included within the 1260 days that the woman hides) (Still waiting.)
Seven Final Plagues or Vials.
1st Vial, painful sores (Still waiting.)
2nd Vial, all sea life dies (Still Waiting.)
3rd Vial, water turned to blood (Still waiting.)
4th Vial, sun intensifies (Still waiting.)
5th Vial, sun darkens (Still waiting.)
6th Vial, drought (Still waiting.)
7th Vial (Still waiting.)